Trump and Putin - the Bromance reignited: with Sir Bill Browder
American Military aid to Ukraine paused. And Browder, Pack, Baker live March 21 at Frontline Club
Firstly, thank you to those mega orderers who have joined the Paid substack.
I am super grateful and humbled by the number who have done so (15 over the weekend) and I will be committing to more paid-only content, especially sharing listener insights, discussions with my co-hosts, and bonus content with guests. Also now that you are members of the paid substack pls write us at Disordershow@gmail.com if you want your questions, comments, feedback to be featured or shared.
TRUMP EVEN RUINED THE MORNING ROUTINE
Since Jan 20, 2025 every morning, I wake up with a BRIEF moment of innocence and then a few split seconds before I turn my computer on or decide to walk downstairs to do my knee rehab stretches and make tea, I remember ‘the horror', ‘the disorder’ that we are living in and it hits me like a ton of bricks. I simply expect waking up to semi-expected, semi-unbelievably horrific news.
Today’s I had braced myself as usual, but nonetheless, the shock on turning on the BBC will be one I don’t forget for a long time:
US pauses military aid to Ukraine as EU chief says Europe is 'ready to step up'
Despite the BBC headlines attempt at a positive spin, we know that this is a pure negative an attempt by Trump and Putin to simply disorder the world and give the disorderers more leverage. I do think Starmer is coming into his own with this crisis as the functional convener who knows how to speak to all sides and all personalities and is truly respected by all major world leaders.
Before getting on to today’s Disorder Podcast, with Sir Bill Browder: Let me first point out that we have agreed a live event at the Frontline Club in Paddington for March 21st at 1900.
This event is not yet RSVP-able but will be soon. It will have a discount code for paid members to the substack and the March 11 RUSI event invite will be resent in the paid bit of this substack for those who have recently joined.
The event details are available below:
Panel discussion: Peak Disorder-- Europe Alone, Putin Emboldened, Ukraine Isolated
Part of the Frontline Club 2025 collection
Can Britain and the EU step up to Trump's bullying and order the disorder via increasing sanctions and possibly confiscating currently frozen Russian assets and using them to fund Ukrainian defence
About this event:
Jason Pack, Host of the Disorder Podcast and Senior Analyst at the NATO Foundation sits down with Stephanie Baker -- Bloomberg Journalist and author of ‘Punishing Putin: Inside the Global Economic War to Bring Down Russia -- and Sir Bill Browder -- the originator of the Magnitsky Sanctions regime, globally acclaimed author, and a close friend of the late Alexei Navalny. The trio discuss the most recent developments in Trump's realignment towards Russia, the next phase of the Russo-Ukrainian War, and ways the UK and EU could confiscate Russian assets and support Ukraine even without American backing. This hard hitting event will explain a possible underlying logic of Putin's and Trump's actions: simply to spew Disorder.
Now to today’s pod:
(Listen on Apple podcast here; or on Spotify here.)
When it comes to Russia, Trump’s America appears on the verge of a major foreign policy U-turn. A couple of weeks ago, Trump called Zelenskyy a dictator and lyingly claimed that Ukraine had started the war. Then there was the February 28 ‘Oval Office Ambush’ heard round the world. Don’t forget that after years of isolating and sanctioning Russia over its invasion of Ukraine, Team Trump met face to face with the Russian Foreign Minister in Saudi and now appears ready to do direct business with Russia and to be actively seeking to humiliate the Ukrainians.
Despite these worrying moves, at the moment, the U-turn remains hypothetical… all words, not yet binding actions. So… how seriously should we take this perspective shift? Does the ‘Vance/Trump Oval Office Ambush’ change everything? And what are the implications for Europe and its allies if America actually switches sides to support Russia long term?
To discuss this perilous moment, we’re joined again by Sir Bill Browder, a successful investor, a globally acclaimed author, and a famous philanthropist/humanitarian advocate. Browder’s tireless advocacy for holding dictators and their henchman to account is widely known. He was a guest on the Disorder programme in Episode 26, a few days after his friend Alexei Navalny was murdered by Putin. [NB: the interview at the core of this episode was recorded on Feb 26 before the Oval Office Trump/Zelenskyy/Vance meeting.]
In this episode, Jason and Sir Bill discuss the transactional nature of Trump 2.0 and the seek to work out whether the recently announced Ukraine mineral deal actually amounts to a hill of beans. Browder emphasizes the unpredictability of the situation, the moral implications of Trump’s proposed U-turn.
(Listen on Apple podcast here; or on Spotify here.)
Finally: as they Order the Disorder, Bill and Jason discuss the practicalities of how to turn confiscate currently frozen Russian assets and use them to fund Ukrainian defence. Sir Bill signs off with a heartrending call for solidarity with the Ukrainian people. And then we cut to Kyiv for an audio prayer from my friend Natalia Tsupryk, Natalia is a Ukrainian composer and violinist.
(Listen on Apple podcast here; or on Spotify here.)
Pls listen to Natalia 3 minutes from the end of the episode.
Subscribe to our Substack (for free, or get the PAID version to attend our March 11th event at RUSI):
Background reading esp to put the much confused minerals deal in context:
Jason’s substack on the the Oval Office Trump/Vance ambush of Zelenskyy: https://natoandtheged.substack.com/p/he-may-not-be-a-russian-agent-but
For a podcast produced out of Kyiv and dedicated just to the War in Ukraine:
Watch Bloomberg Editor Javier Blas on the fact that Ukraine doesn’t have any significant rare earths:
Read the FT explainer of the US-Ukraine Mineral deal: https://www.ft.com/content/1890d104-1395-4393-a71d-d299aed448e6
Listen to our previous episode with Sir Bill Browder: https://pod.link/1706818264/episode/a36160dede2b990a59c34c3c4e8eeece
Read Sir Bill’s piece calling for Russian asset seizure:
And his article co-authored with a leading Ukranian lawyer, Yulia Ziskina calling for seizure of Russia’s state assets: https://www.usnews.com/opinion/articles/2024-11-22/if-trump-cuts-ukraine-aid-the-west-should-seize-russian-assets
Watch United States has ‘abandoned Ukraine’ | Bill Browder
For more on illicit funds and foreign interference, listen to our recent episode with Peter Geoghegan: https://pod.link/1706818264/episode/a7b4de27e0e05e297d97a505357d7050
Part 1 of our discussion with Tom Burgis on the issue of UK’s permissiveness over foreign political financing https://pod.link/1706818264/episode/e003625c25e8ce63dda398369bfea54b
NOW for the mega ordering paid members: a bonus video with Bill, a message from Bjorn a listener from Sweden, and how to attend the March 11 Whitehall RUSI event
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